Speaking of Women's Health
The Speaking of Women's Health Podcast is excited to bring you credible women's health information from host and Executive Director, Dr. Holly L. Thacker. Dr. Thacker will interview guest clinicians discussing relevant women's health topics and the latest news and tips.
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Speaking of Women's Health
What is Acupuncture and What Conditions Does it Treat?
Discover the ancient art of acupuncture with Dr. Holly Thacker and our esteemed guest, Dr. Jing Fan, a renowned expert bridging the worlds of Chinese and Western medicine. Together, they unravel how this centuries-old practice can do more than just alleviate pain. From managing menstrual cramps to aiding in stroke recovery, Dr. Fan provides an enlightening perspective on acupuncture's capacity to balance hormones and enhance bodily functions by manipulating energy flows, or qi, across the body’s meridians.
Dr. Fan takes us on a journey through the myriad health benefits acupuncture offers, emphasizing its role in addressing complex conditions like osteoarthritis, Bell’s palsy, and even mood disorders. He shares his clinical expertise on how acupuncture releases endorphins, boosts blood flow, and influences neurotransmitters, offering a holistic approach to health. Whether it's alleviating chronic pain or supporting addiction recovery, Dr. Fan explains why acupuncture is a valuable tool in modern medicine’s toolkit.
For those curious about acupuncture's safety and practicalities, they cover essential tips for a safe experience, highlighting the importance of finding licensed professionals. Dr. Fan also shares his tailored recommendations for treatment frequency, ensuring listeners understand how to optimize results. They wrap up with how you can connect with both Dr. Fan and Dr. Thacker for further insights, ensuring that expert advice is just a call or click away. Tune in to unlock the secrets of acupuncture and its transformative potential for health and well-being.
For more information on Dr. Jing Fan or to make an appointment with him, visit clevelandclinic.org or call 440-940-2706.
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welcome to the speaking of women's health podcast. I'm your host, dr holly thacker, the executive director of speaking of women's health, and I am back in the sunflower house for a new episode episode, and on this episode I am interviewing Dr Jing Fan to talk about acupuncture. And he is so well educated such an impressive background. He has an undergraduate degree in surgery of Chinese medicine and he has a master's degree in clinical medicine from Nanjing University in China. He also completed a fellowship in Chinese medicine and a fellowship in orthopedic surgery from Shanghai Jiao Tong University. After all this training, he went to Harvard Medical School in Boston to complete a PhD in translational medicine and he currently works in the wellness and preventventive Medicine Department at Cleveland Clinic. Wow, such an impressive background. Welcome to the Speaking of Women's Health podcast, dr Fan.
Speaker 2:Thanks so much, dr Decker, for that kind introduction. I'm really excited to be here on the Speaking of Women's Health podcast. I'm looking forward to chat with you about acupuncture, how it works and how it can help people feel their best.
Speaker 1:This is such an important topic. In fact, after I got back from one of my sessions with you the other day for my shoulder and I think we're going to post pictures of my shoulder with all the different acupuncture needles in it One of our nurse practitioners who's been on this podcast, kelsey Kennedy, and she said it was fine for me to use her name I'm not breaking any confidences. She's like I'm the one who found him. He's the best. I said well, you didn't tell me that, I just found him too. But now we're going to let all of our listeners from 80 different countries who are listening in and even if they're not able to come to Cleveland Clinic to see you I think it's so important for our listeners to understand Tell us what is acupuncture.
Speaker 2:Okay, thank you so much for inviting me here. So acupuncture is a key part of the traditional Chinese medicine, or we can call it the traditional, maybe oriental, medicine, not only in Chinese but also in Japan, korea, a lot of the Asian areas. So that has been practiced for thousands of years. So the first book we learned in Chinese medicine acupuncture is about 3,000 years ago. So it involved inserting very thin sterile needles into the specific point on the body. We call this point acupuncture point or acupoints. So these points are located along the pathways. We call them meridians, so they are believed to carry energy, which we call qi. So, yeah, it helps the circulation of energy circulation and balancing of energy. The goal of the acupuncture is to restore the balance of the flow of the qi and help the body heal itself.
Speaker 1:So interesting and it's such a long therapy to be around for thousands of years and that's the one thing that Kelsey said to me is anything that doesn't work or isn't impressive wouldn't have lasted this long. So tell us, how does acupuncture work and are there different types of acupuncture?
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 2:So yes, we have the two. We can call it the concept of acupuncture. One is the traditional acupuncture, one is the modern acupuncture, because we have been practicing, the Asian people have been practicing acupuncture for thousands of years. So the idea, philosophy they're using is qi right. So the energy they want to move the energy, they want to promote energy flow. But today, more and more research we did, we found acupuncture works by stimulating the point on the body and help the balance with a lot of the scientific research of the pathways.
Speaker 2:So the first mechanism of acupuncture is the local effects. So when we insert needle in the place of the area, so it triggers some response. We call the reflex, the response in the surrounding tissue. So this increase the blood flow and release some natural chemicals like the endorphins, so which reduce the pain and promote healing. Yes, a lot of the application of acupuncture, like for the muscular skeletal pain, was using this effect effects. So this we call the local effects. It can remove the, the inflammation and reduce the muscle tension.
Speaker 2:The second pathway, second mechanism, is also another reflex, but we call the somato-autonomic reflex. So this is the reflex, the acupuncture tap into the body's autonomic nervous system which controls the function like we have internal organ, like the digestion, the heart rate and blood pressure. So there are a little bit complicated, sorry. So there are two pathway, one segmental, one is the brain level. Segmental happens within the single spinal segment. For example, if we put acupuncture needles on the abdominal area so it may improve the stomach function by calming the nerves connected to that specific spinal segment. That is the segmental pathway. Another one is a brain level pathway. Brain level pathway is the signals travels to the brain first and then influence the body. So, for example, stimulating points on arms and the legs we call the meridians. We put the needle on the stomach meridian, large intestine meridian, the stomach large intestine, not on the trunk but the meridian on arms and legs.
Speaker 2:So it can improve the digestion and the cardiovascular function through the reflex involving the brain and the nerves, like the vigorous nerve. So this is the reflex. And also we can see some system as the systemic effects we call this is a neural transmitters in the brain. So Acupuncture, we can see a lot of the example. Acupuncture help regulate the brain. Chemicals like the serotonin and the dopamine, yeah, which play a role, very important role today we can use acupuncture help the mood issue. So disorder of the mood and also pain control and even addiction. So this is yeah.
Speaker 1:It is so fascinating, so it sounds like it's incredibly holistic. It deals with the whole body the musculoskeletal system, the brain, the neural pathways, the natural opiate system in the body, as well as the neurotransmitters. So no wonder it treats so many things. At first, when I heard about it being used for so many different things, I thought, oh, this just is too good to be true, because, like I tell my listeners, anything too good to be true usually is. But apparently we have an exception here with acupuncture. Tell us about how you use acupuncture to help people quit smoking and addictions. That's something that plagues a lot of people.
Speaker 2:Yes, so yes, because we a clinic to help people quit the smoking and help people quit the addiction for the drug use. So usually we combine the body acupuncture, that is, we put a needle on the arm, the leg, sometimes the scalp, the top of the head, head, and also we combine this needle with the ear needle, auricular needle.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because why, auricular, because this area, the ear outer area, that is the areas the weakest nerve, inner weight. So, yes, we, when we stimulate this area, we can stimulate the vagus nerve. That is played an important role to help the people to quit the addiction and quit smoking. So this is a very popular use. We have also an organization we call NADA. Nada is an organization founded and based in New York City and this is a worldwide, global organization to help people quit addiction.
Speaker 1:That's excellent. Does it help with food addictions? Because, of course, obesity is something that, at least in America, we deal with on such a widespread basis.
Speaker 2:Yes, this is another application of the acupuncture, so it's not just in America but also all the world worldwide issue. In China we have a lot of the overweighted people also. So, yeah, so I know maybe you're not familiar how popular acupuncture in China. We have the night clinic, not clinic or the evening clinic. We can call it night clinic because we open until 9 to 10 pm the day.
Speaker 2:So this clinic, especially for people for the weight loss yeah, with control. So when they finish their whole day's work they went to the hospital, the clinic. They can help manage their body weight. So for this type of treatment we combined the abdominal needle with the extremity needles, the needles on the arms and legs Abdominal needle. Usually we combine with the electrical stimulation. Electrical acupuncture or electrical stimulation involves a gentle electric current passed between the needles to enhance the stimulation. This is very effective for the weight loss because a lot of people report after the needle, after the need only. So the the they feel the needle help reduce the cravings and also improve the digestion and support the metabolism. So it's not like the medication or drugs for the for the weight loss a lot of side effects, but acupuncture they didn't feel any side effect but they feel, feel, yeah, so they can constantly feel the improvement of their weight management.
Speaker 1:That is fascinating and I think when people who've never had acupuncture hear about needles or hear about electrical stimulation, it sounds scary. But I can tell you personally I had acupuncture years ago for tennis elbow. I went from playing tennis once a week to twice a week and I have bad tendons, as my listeners know, and I didn't want a steroid injection. And one of our gynecologists on staff was also trained in acupuncture and she's like, oh come on, let's do it. I just had the plain needles, it wasn't painful and I was so improved and happy that I didn't have to take medications or get a steroid injection. And then fast forward.
Speaker 1:Several years later I decided to lift a lot more weights and increase it too much and strain my old tendons and came to see you and you also have applied the electrical stimulation and it's an interesting feeling. It's not painful at all and afterwards it almost feels like you've either worked out your muscles or I felt very relaxed, almost like I had had a massage in a kind of a different way. Is that the neurochemicals in the brain?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So, yes, I just mentioned the many pathways. So, yeah, so for the pain issue, for the pain issue, it's more than the pathway I mentioned. It also has another like the fascial network. Yeah, so that is the newer idea that explains how acupuncture can help the collected tissues, the fascia. We know we are a lot of the whole body full of all of the fascia. Fascia is a network of the tissue running through the body. It may act as the pathway for effective acupuncture. Also, stimulating the points might improve how the body communicates the heals itself with the fascia system. So that is why acupuncture works very well. For the pain issue, we all know the Ohio Medicaid covered acupuncture with seven. Let me see one, two, three, four, five, six, yeah, seven. I remember seven conditions like the acute post-operative pain, cervical pain, low back pain, migraines, osteoarthritis of the hip and knee and also one more very interesting nausea or vomiting related to the pregnancy and the chemotherapy. So that's it. All of this is covered by the Ohio Medicaid.
Speaker 1:Oh my, I wish I would have known about it. I had terrible nausea with my pregnancies. In fact, it was so terrible I can't believe I got pregnant as many times as I did, because it was terrible to feel nauseated all the time.
Speaker 2:And so it's safe in pregnancy then, yeah yes, because for the pregnancy we know some point is not good to use. Some points are good to use. So because for the pregnancy we know a lot of people are concerned about taking medication because maybe not good for the baby. So yeah, but the acupuncture is very safe. There's no side effect like the drug. But the WCM helped with the reflex, can help to sedate the nausea and the vomiting. So usually we put the needle on the upper stomach, not lower but upper stomach and also the needle on the wrist area, sometimes just the, and also we can add one point on the knee area. So we just put maybe three needles or sometimes four needles.
Speaker 1:We can help the nausea a lot Wow, sometimes four needles. We can help the nausea a lot Wow. I'm gonna have to have our executive producer and our social media manager, lee Kleckar, update lots of our pages, like from migraine headache to low back pain to we have a lot of information about nausea. In pregnancy. I used a little bit of b6 and then those acupressure bands, but it probably would have been a lot better just to come in and get the needle. Does it stimulate faster digestion? Because what I thought, why I was so nauseated is like my stomach just never emptied. The food would just sit there for hours. Yes, yes.
Speaker 2:So for all the digestion issues, not only stomach issues but also bowel movement issues, acupuncture works very well for that. Acupuncture can work for either constipation or diarrhea. So this is very interesting. So some people have diarrhea, we can fix it. Some people have constipation, also we can fix it. And sometimes these two types of treatments are similar also can fix it. And sometimes these two types of treatment are similar. That means the acupuncture, the acupoint treatment, the medulline stimulating the point, can have the bidirection effect on the whole body. That is what we call restore the balance Fascinating.
Speaker 1:And is this something for children? Is there any kind of an age limit in terms of? Is it for cooperation or just development of the nervous system? It depends.
Speaker 2:It depends on how sensitive the children are, how the kind of education we educate our children about acupuncture. In China for the kids, acupuncture for the children is a very popular use. So usually five years, six years children we can use acupuncture also, and also I did acupuncture for my daughter once. They're maybe three years old. It's okay for some of them, they're just scared, they cry. But when I put a needle it's okay, it's not hurting. Yeah, this is kind of education, but usually I because I'm not a pediatric acupuncturist usually I works for the patient about eight years or nine years about, because I think they can control their emotion and control their behavior better. So I'm so when I see the baby cry my heart breaks. So I have to admit I'm not a good pediatric acupuncturist.
Speaker 1:It's definitely a different skill. I know when I rotated in medical school with pediatrics Definitely a different skill. I know when I rotated in medical school with pediatrics I was like this is not for me, I just want to deal with adults. So it is a different skill set and just like in so many fields of medicine.
Speaker 1:But you have been listening to the Speaking of Women's Health podcast and I'm your host, dr Holly Thacker I am interviewing Dr Jing Fan, who is trained in orthopedic surgery, acupuncture and also translational medicine. He's done extensive research so he really understands all the whole biology, physiology, pathology, anatomy and has studied several different aspects of medicine. And we're talking about how acupuncture works. It works for lots of pain conditions, including chronic lower back pain. We have a podcast on sciatica. Migraine headaches certainly are a big problem. Half the population has them. I had a podcast on migraine headaches but I didn't include anything about acupuncture Now I feel like I'm deficient and some other women's health topics. You were telling me menstrual cramps. I mean we deal with painful menstrual periods all the time in our Center for Specialized Women's Health and a lot of times use medication or hormonal manipulation. But you've got a needle to treat that right.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, so the acupuncture because acupuncture works with the nervous system, works with the endocrine system and also works with sometimes works, that we can see the evidence to see acupuncture can help the immune system. And so this is all of this mechanism. So combined we can see acupuncture works very well for the menstrual cycle regulation and also sometimes the menopause and hot flashes. It's not only the pain but also the help. This restore the cycle, the regular cycle and also the infertility. So the mechanism is what we call the neuroendocrine effect.
Speaker 2:The neuroendocrine effect regulates the hormones, not like the estrogen, progesterone, but it's more come from works more from the hypothalamus and the puteri. So the glands, we see the central nerve system. We know there is an axle between the central nerve and the target organ, the glands. Acupuncture can regulate the stimulating hormone and then can help the feedback, the hormone feedback. So you know, I see a lot of my patients who have the menstrual cycle issue is because they're using some fake hormone. Yeah, so they are using the birth control pill to improve their sensitivity of the feedback and regulate and promote our natural hormone production and that can help that.
Speaker 1:Excellent. Now, when I asked you before, are there some conditions that we should know that people should get immediate treatment for acupuncture? You mentioned Bell's palsy, so tell us what Bell's palsy is and why it's important for someone to get acupuncture if they develop this facial paralysis.
Speaker 2:Yeah, acupuncture helps restore the muscle function and also nerve activity in the face. So we know the local effect improves blood flow and helps repair the damaged facial nerve. If the blood flow improved, all the damaged tissue improved. So that is the one. And also the fascia network supports the muscle recovery also, and you know, the acupuncture not only helps the function of the muscle but also can have some systemic effect to reduce the stress. Also can help the healing. Usually, you know, in China the Bell's palsy is the main condition, acupuncture cover. This is the main condition. Everybody knows who has the Bell's palsy. They should go to acupuncture first. So yeah, so within the first week.
Speaker 1:I'm embarrassed to say I didn't know that until you educated me, and I would think that people would. If their regular allopathic physician doesn't tell them about that, they wouldn't know. And so you say that they might have the paralysis for several months, longer than they might otherwise have.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so today a lot of people assume the Bell's palsy can be healed by itself without any treatment. But in my experience I see maybe 80% is good but the sum maybe 10% or 20% is not good, the prognosis is not good. With acupuncture we can reduce the risk for the long term, the problem of the Bell's Palsy. So my experience, the fastest, fastest, fastest recovery is just two weeks, two weeks. So everything is good, everything is recovered and some people maybe need four weeks. The treatment, usually the, I think the medium the time, the recovery time is about three to four weeks with acupuncture fully recovered without any problem. Yeah, so that is the what I see, acupuncture and the same for the stroke. You know, stroke is worse. It's more, much, much more severe than the Bell's palsy because Bell's palsy is a peripheral nerve problem.
Speaker 2:But, stroke is a central nerve. It's a brain problem, central nerve problem. So the recovery period for the stroke is much longer than the Bell's palsy. But yes, so stroke is another condition in China. Everybody knows acupuncture can help. So when they got stroke they always go to the acupuncture doctors to treat. For the treatment for the stroke we can see with acupuncture, without acupuncture, we can see significant difference between these two groups between these two groups.
Speaker 1:Wow, that is something, because stroke can be so devastating in any type of paralysis, whether it's peripheral nerve, like Bell's palsy, or central nervous system. Now I'm curious about the osteoarthritis indications, because when I look at x-rays of joints hips, knees, hands and you see bone on bone, you would think it's end stage. So is it just pain relief? Or I mean, as far as I know, we can't regenerate cartilage, which loss of cartilage and the joint imbalance is a major part of the problem.
Speaker 2:This is a very good question, this is a very good question.
Speaker 2:This is also, I can is the main manifestation or phenomenon of the osteoarthritis. But the cause of osteoarthritis is more than that. Why the cartilage damage? Why we can see the bone on bone. That is something we need to fix first right. So we are born with healthy, everybody born with healthy. But why we developed osteoarthritis that is because of the imbalance of soft tissue.
Speaker 2:We can see most of people who has osteoarthritis with the deformity of the alignment of the knee. Some people have varus or valgus because the knee bending inside or bending outside. That is what we call the deformities of the joint. Why it happened? Because the joint, the capsule or the ligament around joint lose the balance. One side is tighter than another side. That is why the body's weight loading more on inside or outside more than another side. That is cause the compartment, the damage, the cartilage damage in one compartment. We seldom see both of the. Just for the knee, for example. For the knee osteoarthritis we have two compartments. One is the medial, one is the lateral.
Speaker 2:Most of the osteoarthritis happened in the medial side. Why medial side? Because the medial, the ligament is more likely to develop, the tighten and shorten. So then the outer side, the medial side is more stable and the more thickness than the outer side. So that is why when we because I did a lot of the knee replacement in China when I was working in hospital in China we found that when we replace the knee, the knee replacement surgery, we found sometimes we just replace the medial side only, it also can work. It also works we don't have to replace the whole knee.
Speaker 2:But the key point is we need to, after surgery or during the surgery, we need to restore the tissue balance, soft tissue balance, the ligament balance. That is more important than to replace the bone of the knee. So acupuncture works. Acupuncture is very fine needle. We know it doesn't change the structure of the knee but it can help not only the pain. Pain is absolutely. Acupuncture helps the pain. Yeah, with a lot of reflex, reflex that changed our pain sensation and also the blood circulation. But acupuncture usually my strategy of treating the knee pain or all type of pain issue. I wanted to do the needling on the specific point to restore the balance of soft tissue. That means restore the balance of soft tissue. That means to release the tightened side and reinforce the loose side. So that is the way I treat the pain issue, especially for osteoarthritis.
Speaker 1:So it sounds like it's very complementary. You could do it in place of something more invasive. On the other hand, if someone does undergo back surgery or knee surgery or hip surgery, they still obviously need rehab and physical therapy and pain control and realignment, which it sounds like you know acupuncture helps in those realms. So that is so fascinating. Are there other health conditions that acupuncture can help with, like cancer? Is there any contraindications that you can't do? Acupuncture in certain patients? Yes.
Speaker 2:So cancer is a very wide application. Acupuncture can help so cancer and also the treatment of the cancer, because we all know chemotherapy has a lot of side effects, like the neuropathy, like the digestion issues and also some other immunity problems. So acupuncture works for the cancer itself. We have seen a lot of the papers, articles, reports that acupuncture improves immunity and also anti-inflammation and also sometimes acupuncture can, because acupuncture promote a holistic health. It also can help for the cancer treatment also. But acupuncture works more like the nausea, fatigue and pain during the cancer treatment, the chemotherapy treatment, radiotherapy treatment and also acupuncture help with the patient's stress, the cancer People who has cancer a lot of stress, very high stress.
Speaker 1:Oh, yes, and improve sleep.
Speaker 2:acupuncture improve sleep, that is can help people improve the mood and energy. This is one for application for the cancer and also acupuncture. Yeah, we just discussed the pain management, the weight management, the nerves and those quit smoking, and acupuncture works for the one. We. Because I have been teaching acupuncture in China, in the United States, for 20 years almost 20 years, wow.
Speaker 1:You don't look old enough to have done all this.
Speaker 2:I'm pretty old, so yeah, so acupuncture when we learn, when we are teaching acupuncture in class, so we teach our students. Acupuncture works for the stroke, common cold, asthma, vomiting, diarrhea, constipation, urinary issue, mental health issue, dizziness, headaches, joint pain, all type pain, belt pulses, sciatica, mental issue, tinnitus and hearing loss.
Speaker 1:Oh yes, Tinnitus seems to be a huge problem that patients are just driven crazy with. So how is it that acupuncture helps tinnitus, which is ringing in the ears?
Speaker 2:Yes. So the hearing issue. We all know hearing issue is the problem. It's a big problem. We don't have a lot of good solution for that issue, Usually for acupuncture treatment, not only for the hearing problem but also for all type problem, because we learned the mechanism I mentioned.
Speaker 2:We need a local treatment and with the distal treatment, the local treatment works on the local reflex and also improves the local healing of the nerve, local healing of the inflammation, local healing of the tissue damage. And the distal treatment we put the needles for example, people who have tinnitus and then we put a needle not only in the ear, around the ear, but also we put needle on the arms. We put needle on not only in the ear, around the ear, but also we put needle on the arms, with the needle on the legs and the toes, the fingers, that the close, the finger toes. That is we call the meridian, so some meridian. They connect to the ear. There are maybe about six meridians to connect to the ears. We put a needle on this meridian. That also can improve the hearing, the functions. So but because the tinnitus and hearing issue is very complicated. So when we see the reason, there are many reasons for that one. So acupuncture also need to see what type of the issue and also we do the different plan for this issue.
Speaker 1:And I've certainly seen patients who've undergone all sorts of invasive, expensive infertility treatments who then have acupuncture and get pregnant Is it primarily through reducing stress, but also rebalancing the hormones as well?
Speaker 2:Yes, it's not only for the stress but also for the hormone, hormonal balancing. So when we treat the infertility the same, we need to put some needle in the lower abdominal areas. We have some point. We call the uterine points. We have some points, yeah, we call the infertility points. And also we put some needle on the legs, meaning the legs. The legs can have some inside of the meridian. We call it three in meridian, there are three in meridians. So this meridian helped collect to the vaginal area, connect to the reproductive system. That not only for the fertility but also can help the bladder problem. The bladder and also can help the bowel movement also can work for that and also acupuncture. Because, yeah, I just mentioned that infertility is not only the target organ problem, not only the overall problem, not only the uterus problem, but also the hypothalamus and the pituitary imbalance between the heart. The bottom is kidney. So heart is our mind, because I have a brave heart.
Speaker 2:Heart means that it's not this hard. A brave heart is not. That means my heart is strong but my mind, my brain is strong. And also the kidney. In Chinese medicine that is the function of the hormone, of the endocrine system function. So the heart and kidney connection that represent in the Western medicine that is the hypothalamus, pituitary and overall axils. So when we do the treatment we need to do some top treatment. That means the needle on the scalp area that can help the release the stress, and then we put a needle on the heart meridian, on the kidney meridian, on the spleen meridian and also local treatment of the abdominal area that can help restore the holistic imbalance.
Speaker 1:Now. Are there any risks associated with acupuncture?
Speaker 2:Oh, yes, it's a very good question. A lot of people are curious about the risk. Acupuncture is a very safe one, down by a trained professional, so the risks are minimal. But we have seen there some people might have some mild bruising. I want to put some needles on mild bruising and also some soreness where the needles go in. So the soreness may be the same day, the evening, because the body has some muscles and response for the needle, and also maybe the second day people feel the soreness. But this is mild.
Speaker 2:And also it's important to make sure your acupuncture is licensed or your practitioner is licensed, because some areas, if we put the needle too deep, we have to know how deep the needles go and also we need to use the sterile needles. So today we always use the disposable, just the one-time use needles. We shouldn't use the reused needles. This is the one thing. And also for some people who have the blood issue, the blood disease or cardiovascular issue, they are taking the blood thinners. That is something we need to know. So tell your acupuncturist or your doctor that you are taking the blood thinners or sometimes you're taking some other medication maybe has some circulation impacting your circulation and anticoagulant and anti-platelet medication. That is we need to know because sometimes if we put a needle and withdraw the needle, pull out and take out the needle, there is some bleeding. That bleeding is very mild bleeding. Just a push press for maybe one minute. That should be fine, but some people are taking the blood thinner. We need to press for a longer time. There maybe has some bleeding inside.
Speaker 1:And how often or how many times is acupuncture needed? Yeah, it depends.
Speaker 2:It depends on the person and the condition be treated. Some people feel better after just one session, but some chronic condition you really need a few weeks, six weeks, 12 weeks of the regular treatment. Typically a plan might be once or twice a week. This is typically the plan and also, for example, for the pain management if someone come here with the pain about the six or eight. So with the regular treatment once or twice a week, so we reduce the pain to two, sometimes two or three, yeah, from seven, eight to two, three and then the next treatment which can do less often. So we can do every other week or every three weeks. That is just to keep the very low.
Speaker 2:Yeah because for the chronic issue it's hard to say we can 100% fix it. Yeah, for the chronic pain if the pain is a very high. Eight, nine, that is, yeah, very absolutely we need to treat it. But if pain is just one or two, maybe we don't need to treat it. But it's pain is just one or two, maybe we don't need to treat just us people. Do some self-stretching, self-maintenance, that can help.
Speaker 1:We don't need acupuncture anymore and any final tips or words of advice for our listeners okay, thank you.
Speaker 2:So final tips if you are curious about acupuncture, give it a try. Yeah, it's worth to try. It's not painful, it's not hurting. So yeah, it's gentle, natural way to support your health and also it can be a great addition to your overall wellness routine. Yeah, but that just to make sure. Once again, just make sure to see a licensed acupuncturist or any practitioner. We know today medical doctors with acupuncture training and also with the nurse practitioner, the physician assistant and also chiropractor, the PT. They all have to plan the curriculum of the acupuncture treatment and the training. So if you see your practitioner, you have to make sure they have the license acupuncture license to train. So that is also very important.
Speaker 1:And how can one determine if someone does have a license? Is there like a website or a certain specific credential that we should look for?
Speaker 2:So for the acupuncturist, everybody, everyone who practice acupuncture, as acupuncturist, they must have the certificate, the acupuncture license. Or I think maybe only three states in the United States do not need acupuncture certificate. Oh really.
Speaker 1:Yeah, only three. What are those three states? I do not remember.
Speaker 2:So we have totally 50. There are only three. We can check the. If you want to check, you can go to the website of the NCCAOM. Nccaom is a national committee of the certification committee, so they have the map of the acupuncture license map. I remember three states they do not require the certificate. They can practice acupuncture, only three. But Ohio absolutely need acupuncture certificate. And yeah, this is this is the. Yeah, this is what I want to say. Maybe this is the final tips, but not only just acupuncturist for other practitioner like the medical doctor or chiropractor, I think they they these. They need to receive some training program. Yeah, go to training program. This. You should have some certificate with the acupuncture training or dry needle in training. Dry needle is similar, so maybe someone doesn't.
Speaker 2:So, maybe someone doesn't like it, but I think with my experience, I think dry needling is similar, but dry needling focuses on the musculoskeletal system. Acupuncture covers more than the musculoskeletal.
Speaker 1:Much more comprehensive. Yes, Well, we'll include some of this in our show notes and if our listeners want to get in touch with you or see you as a patient or any social media, are there any contacts that you want our listeners to know about?
Speaker 2:Okay, so I'm a full-time faculty and an employee at Cleveland Clinic. If you want to see me, just go to the Cleveland Clinic website official website and search the find Dr Gene Fan. You can find me and there are my information and also the phone number. You can call them to make appointment with me and also if you have some questions, maybe I think Dr Thacker has some.
Speaker 1:Dr Thacker, do you have any way to have our audience can reach out to you or to some, because the yes, yes, actually, on our speakingofwomenshealthcom there's a contact us, so if there's any specific questions that people have, you can communicate that way with us and we will push out Dr Jing Fang's contact information on our social media. And I encourage our listeners to go on speakingofwomenshealthcom because we do have some content on acupuncture. I think we probably need some more content and thank you so much, doctor, for joining us on the Speaking of Women's Health podcast. This was so enlightening and thanks to our loyal listeners for tuning in for another episode. Please be sure to subscribe for free. You can subscribe on Apple Podcasts, spotify TuneIn, wherever you listen to podcasts, and if you enjoyed this episode and you want to support the podcast, share it with others.
